next »

[lesliefmiller]

I have posted some poems in various internet fora over the past few years, but I should make you all aware of something particularly important.

If you are submitting poetry to publications, and that poetry is to be unpublished, this counts.  No one wants to publish a poem for people to buy when it's available for free on the web.  Many editors, I've been told, will do a search to make sure it's not either stolen or self-published.

So beware.  If I were you (and I'm one of you, anyway), I wouldn't publish my work on this forum unless it is something I doubt would be published anywhere or don't care about publication at all.

Leslie

[julie]

mmmmmm
I confess I hadn't really considered that when I made this particular forum.

I wonder if any of you with editing experience could give us your feeling on the matter....

I would like to know how/if it differs when the posting of poetry is for the purpose of getting a critique.

[ziggy]

I don't believe most, if any editor, has the time or paitence to search the internet for a poem. Some editors don't like simultaneous submissions, but to save time, I do. Maybe I'm gambling, but I can fire our submissions so much faster. If I get accepted, I let the other publications know and retract that poem from consideration.  Again, I don't truely believe that a critique forum counts as a publication. Oh, well maybe I'm totaly wrong!

[WIREMAN]

it's a new mellenium and we are cyber space explorers, the whole concept of media is changing
right before our eyes. To hold back and not roll with this flow is contrary to creative spirit. I write my stuff on the net, I read my stuff live loud and proud and show my sculptures anywhere I can, how else is an artist gonna grow and flurish and ultimatly be known.
This medium, these writing sites, are the future.
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Tue Feb 22 2005, 05:54PM ]</span>

[DJNutjob]

I really don't think there's an Editor Gestapo out there trolling the web to see if "Flowers for Gardulla" has ever appeared in the Milwaukee Online Poets Forum. I'm certainly not saying it's never happened... it sounds like Leslie may even have a horror story of her own, no? But if an Editor wants to produce a quality journal, they're not going to care where the poem has been or what it was doing there (if it's a quality piece, that is). Still, I suppose there's always the crazy-old-lady-who-used-to-be-hot-shit-in-the-Kalamazoo-Community-College-English -Department-but-who's-now-spending-her-lonely-twilight-years-busting-balls-and -making-sure-all-of-her-ceramic-penguins-are-facing-south factor... people can always be a pain in the ass, although I imagine it's more the exception rather than the rule.

Now, if an author is LEGALLY BOUND by ANOTHER publisher not to reproduce the work in question, that could be a problem. But most publications will make you aware of their rights policies at the time of submission, and I don't think I've ever seen one make demands of a writer BEFORE the fact (ie "if you put this on the web before you submitted it you are a bad monkey and you will NEVER GET TO GO ON THE BIG BOY RIDES!"), especially if it's a really good piece.

As for web vs. print...

From '97 to '99 I had three chapbooks which I published myself... and mind you, these weren't chinsy little 24 pagers -- the shortest was probably 98 pages and the longest came in just under 200. Lots of paper, lots of toner, lots of time waiting for the laser printer to print the pages, lots of time RELOADING the laser printer to print the OTHER side... it was a nightmare. Then the things still needed to be bound. I tried Kinko's first... tape binding was some ridiculous price -- like $3 or $4 a book. Then for "Nutjob" (my last chapbook, which was the 200 pager), I came up with the idea of using a three-hole punch on the pages and putting them together with nuts and bolts. With the exception of not really being able to properly place them with other books on a bookshelf (the binding has to stick out a little bit), it worked really well, and was FANTASTICALLY cheap (a $3 box of 1/2 inch nuts and bolts could bind over 50 books). A friend of mine even came up with the idea of using two sheets of transparency film on the front and back, folding them under the covers to act as sort of a clear dust jacket.

But even though I found a way to streamline the process, it was still a major pain in the sphincter and I didn't want to do it anymore. I felt like a heel charging people for the books and found myself on more than one occasion simply giving them away if the boo-hoo-I-wish-I-had-ten-bucks-but-my-dog-has-AIDS-and-the-medicine-is-so-expensive story was good enough. Then *I* was losing money, and I don't like losing money.

So now when I go to readings, I always mention the website. You know, "hey, if you like this stuff, come by my website." Everything is there... everything is on the website. For free. Everything. BUT PEOPLE STILL ASK ME ABOUT THE FREAKING BOOKS. People want something they can touch, something that they can take home with them and look at and show to other people.

Moral of the story? Poetry in print still beats poetry on the internet. Anyone can put their poetry on the net... not everyone can put it in print.

JSL

[julie]

My unarticulated thoughts seem to be echoed in this exchange.

Isn't some of the incentive for creating poetry, the opportunity to share it? The dialogue it opens, the exchange you have with the reader/listener?

I can't deny I want to have my poetry in print because as DJ pointed out there is something special about the tactile nature of a book, the page you can turn. But I can satisfy some of my yearning to connect with other people by putting my poetry online.

[WIREMAN]

That's it exactly julie, the interaction is so stimulating and enables so much creativity that would not be there otherwise, yes by all means the poems you have labored on and crafted for publication in a book are sacred, the writing on the web is more like a proving ground and this wired man loves it.

[lesliefmiller]

I'm 42 years old.  I write because I am good at it and because I have no choice.  Sharing, while valuable for feedback, is not my primary goal.  Fame is.  

Seriously, though, editors don't "troll" the internet looking for stolen poetry.  But I've taught college English for 15 years.  When someone's essay looks too good, it takes no time at all to do a Google search to see if it's stolen.

It would take no time at all for an editor or assistant or anyone else in the office of a lit mag (if it's large enough to have employees) to type in one line in quotes.

Why?  Because why buy the cow when you get the milk for free.  People aren't going to pay for a literary magazine that's full of work they can view online for free.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Leslie

P.S.  By all means, post your poems if you want feedback.  I wouldn't stop anyone from doing it.  But I did want to warn those who may not have thought about it.  

P.P.S.  But if you truly want to share, post your poem in your own blog, and give everyone in the world your blog address.  I find that even the smartest and well read of my friends won't go out of their way to read a poem unless it's in their faces.  Publishing here means that only poets/forum members are reading it.  Publishing on a non-poetry forum allows the general public to read it.
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed Feb 23 2005, 11:18AM ]</span>