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[BardmasterUB05]

Incorrect again, Mr Bog, sharing thoughts from another point of view which you don't feel comfortable about, another common trait of the left, dogmatists. Pick youself up from the leftist manure, apologize to veterans!

[Nazz]

i know, dave.  but totalitarian socialism has been tried, even if it wasn't what one would call "pure."  in reality no political system is ever "purely" socialistic or capitalistic in practice-- which is a good thing.  a mix of the two is needed-- public and private.  

but these "right-wing" corporatist shills and wall street crooks, etc. try to swindle us into thinking that ANY AND ALL government social programs and/or regulation / oversight of corporations and markets amounts to evil "socialism," and must therefore be abolished.  baloney. . .  excess corporate welfare, crony-capitalism, war-profiteering, etc. is to be avoided as much as excess social welfare.  there is such a thing as bad capitalism.

in reality there is hardly even any credible "left-wing" any more in the u.s.  the democrats have been pulled so far to the right . . .    

[dave eberhardt]

thank you nazz
there is a very credible left wing

it may be teensy but it exists- ws the truth always large? look at christians arond the time of Paul or before constantine? (not contanstine pantazonis)

check out spark or, as it is known in a far more civilzed country than ours- France- Lutte Ouvriere, let me know what you think

there is a blueprint- first expropriate the banks- put people before profits- it would b very simple 

[Nazz]

yes, there are descriptions of a socialistic early christian economy early in the "acts of the apostles" book in the new testament, which was written circa 60-110 a.d.-- well before emperor constantine finally legalized christianity in rome.  and the "desert fathers" in the 200's a.d., while semi-hermitic, at times favored informal communal-type groups, before pachomius came along and set up more structured monastic arrangements.

i have no problem with folks being successful and getting rich, but not if they're doing it fraudulently, or screwing over too many folks in the process (see mitt) and not adding value to the economy --- which btw i personally feel is far too materialistic and eco-destructive as it has evolved (but of course that is a bit of a subjective call) . . . 

[constantine]

the politicization of discourse on this site, squeezes the analysis of poetry - the concerns of the art as an art - almost completely out of the picture. we don't learn about the art - we don't question artistic merit - no, we are too busy propagating our political views. every poet determines what is important to convey for him or herself - that is to be expected, but when a paradigm infiltrates and dominates all discussion it becomes boring and redundant. at least for me. nazz and bard have the right to write about what they choose. the political content is secondary; the focus on a poetry site should be poetry - discussion, one would think, should be along the lines of poetics not politics. does this poem work - why or why not. that's how i intend to approach it.

[Nazz]

agreed.  valid criticism / observations, dino.

although i'm not shy about "political" poems if they try to explore more basic themes.  like christian doctrine's (alleged) connection with jesus' actual teachings, or the irony of men responsible for escalating war(s) winning a "peace prize"-- those sorts of things.  for better or worse i guess ...  character flaw, i guess ... you do have to "space them far enough apart," perhaps . . .  

[constantine]

people can write about whatever is important to them - i don't want to give the impression that i think you should space them out or that you or anyone is out of line. i just think that commentary and critique should be less concerned with what is said, but more on how it is said.

[Nazz]

fair enough.  (though always a bit of a sticky wicket in these matters . . .)

[constantine]

that's true

[alias shifter]

Mike, nice read. Should it be "penny pitchers" or "penny pinchers".

[BardmasterUB05]

Thank you, Alias, as written, urban definition, and all leftists ever seem to do is pitch pennnies at problems, their inadequate habit, goes back to unbalanced books. They're idiots. A lesser species. Could be reptilians from a bankrupt planet. Their priest seem otherworldly.

[saw]

I got involved with Poetry in Baltimore early on, and from 2005 through part of 2011 I for the most part really enjoyed the site. The reason I left the site until recently coming back, was the offensive behavior and continual personal attacks by Mike North. Years ago Mike was banned from the site because of this, and even though I disliked the vile exchanges Mike had with Alan, I appealed to Julie along with Dino to have Mike reinstated. I believed we shouldn't be silencing any voices.

Mike's last comment above is really the last straw for me. He obviously understands that many poets here lean to the left, and to call them "idiots" and " a lesser species" is shameful. A site like this which as Dino pointed out is ostensibly about discussing the merits of posted poems, but perhaps inevitably, it has always wound up in all kinds of debates ( which could be healthy) as long as people aren't calling names.

If you read every thread, everyone except Mike's, everyone is essentially respectfully stating their position....the only insults come from Mike...."typical leftist bullshit."  etc. etc.

Sorry to everyone I've enjoyed interacting with, this is my final post

I am not an idiot nor am I a lesser species, I simply have a different point of view.

[BardmasterUB05]

I didn't ask you to post on this piece of mine, saw, then flat out attack me. I didn't know that there was some rite of passage to post on PIB? MUST BE A CARD CARRYING LEFTIST! you left a long time ago so we all know where your loyalties are. many people who are posted here work for corporations and have since left because they're tired of reading the kinda stuff that you write...anti-free market, capitalist. Several on my golfing friends work for UPS/ FEDEX and were ready to start posting, but not in this hostile anti-corporate environment. You're too blind in your assessments. Go back to college, It's free after a certain age. Learn a few other POV's. we know where everybody's loyalties have been for the last 2 years . Thank you, I dare say!

[Nazz]

sheesh.  so we're all "idiots"...
nice, bard.  real nice.

if you blatantly attack, then expect that sometimes it will be returned-- even though it wasn't really "returned" here in this thread with the same vitriol (amazingly).  and believe me, i've held my tongue plenty of times when you start in with this disparaging rant of yours.

just saying . . .

[BardmasterUB05]

Nazz, it is my right of speech. All of us write similarly. By the way, it's mutual with the scathing  uninformed attacks you made publicly against military, government institutions here. I had to bite my tongue plenty of times with that nonsense. dish out, lurk here 24/7 damn near asleep  on PIB. It's rather suspicious .