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[dave eberhardt]

after fitzee's umar kayyam & jeff koons (sculptor- google image/see his "michael jackson w pet chimp)

A French baguette w pinot noir
& u (throw in a stream or rivulet)-
u singing a bit of michel legrand and stuff-
thad be enuff....

[constantine]

better than khayam

[dave eberhardt]

   
how great poetry is made?
« on: January 04, 2012, 10:16:16 AM »
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A bit from Umar Khayyam:

Tell me: how the greatest  poetry is made?

 From the original? From the first thought? Well…not necessarily….consider the following:

Translations from the original-

 quatrain 45
 “One jar of wine and a lover’s lips, on the bank of the sown field,
These have robbed me of cash, and thee of the credit,
The whole human race is pledged to heaven or hell,
But whoever went to hell. And who ever came from heaven?”

this from Edward Heron-Allen’s “Ruba’iyat- BEING
 A facsimile of the manuscript in the Bodleian Library at Oxfod- w a transcript into modern Persian characters:

“It will be observed that this quatrain, which is not found in C, N, or W, is practically a paraphrase of q 40 : “I know not whether he who fashioned me/appointed me to dwell in heaven or dreadful hell/ but some food, and an adored one, and wine, upon the green bank of a field/ all these three are cash to me- thinke be the credit-heaven”

The quatrain is probably spurious. (dave’s bolding)  Compare also q 32 and q 76..p221 is almost identical and L has a corresponding quatrain, # 37 (B.34) the 1st 3 lines of which read: “A goblet and wine and a cup bearer on the bank of a field…etc.”

Also : “The laws of Persian prosody, to which Umar never paid strict attention, require that lines 2 and 4 should not end with a word identical in sound and meaning.” !!!!!!!!!!! (my exclamation points)

LONDON: H.S. Nichols LTD, 39 Charing Cross Rd. W.C.

 quatrain 35 “In springtime with an houri’s disposition
Should give me a goblet of wine along the fringes of a sown field,
Though this may appear unfitting 2 to the people,
A dog will be better than I if I should mention paradise.

2 literally- ugly

quatrain 45 “I know not at all whether He Who molded me
Made me of the folk of paradise of of ugly hell.
A bowl, a beloved, and a harp along the fringes of a sown field-
These three are cash for me, and for thee- a credit /paradise,


1859- Fitzgerald “Here  with a loaf of bread beneath the bough,
A flask of wine, a book of verse-and thou
Beside me singing in the wilderness
And wilderness is paradise enow. 

1872-Fitzgerald-“A book of verses underneath the bough,
A jug of wine, a loaf of bread-and thou
Beside me singing in the wilderness-
O, wilderness were paradise enow 

[dave eberhardt]

quatrain 45 - this a literal translation: “I know not at all whether He Who molded me
Made me of the folk of paradise of of ugly hell.
A bowl, a beloved, and a harp along the fringes of a sown field-
These three are cash for me, and for thee- a credit /paradise,

now- in the Persian- the rhyme scheme required can be severe! so this obviously does not conform to it- am still looking to a quatrain that conforms to the original Persian- how it sounded- and what language is it that it was in?

THIS BECOMES...................

1859-by Englisn poet, Edward Fitzgerald (and you may recognize): “Here with a loaf of bread beneath the bough,
A flask of wine, a book of verse-and thou
Beside me singing in the wilderness
And wilderness is paradise enow. "

Rubayiat of Umar Kayyam

to me- the refinement- the translation- is too fabulous-i wld add that- as Dino is doing- STUDY THE CLASSICX- it has all already been said- AND BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dave eberhardt]

what has happend in eng poetry since 1859-
eliot copied fitzgerald a bit
that was good

who has anything like umar to say? who?
we might as well just try to translate umar a little bit better?
hafiz? jami?

catullus?
horace?
what abt aramaic poetry from the time of Jesus? anybody know anything abt that (i like the desert countries)

[ChrisGeorge]

But do I have to start calling you Omar now?   

[constantine]

perhaps ka-zar the wonder poet would be better.

[Nazz]

so this fitzgerald guy . . . a rip-off artist? . . .

[constantine]

a piker poet?

[dave eberhardt]

i wish i cld b like Fitzgerald- a country gentleman- large estates- gardens and such- translating the great persians- friends w tennyson et al- he had the bestest life of all- old fitz

but i do think he channeled kayyam wonderfully- as if one genius stepped up from another? and the two made it better than any one

[ChrisGeorge]

Fitz may have been like my West Coast friend, poet Gary Blankenship, who has written poems in the style of Chinese poet Wang Wei.  See here and here.

Chris 

[Light Haven]

Any of it is probably better than what we write and Dave that is the question in my mind. And this matter is as significant to me as anything I have written as commentary. Somehow all of us have lost the abikity to tell the truth, maybe because everything we would write about is not crystAl clear enogh to describe. Ok like tonight she has Aids. The money gave them wiil waffle waffle buy some pot. Her baby has been taken form her and next week she will be homeless. Write a pem about that with all footnotes and speak of it.. Go ahead Dave throw the bullshit in the ditch and write the soul of this poor girl.

[Light Haven]

I don't know of anyone who has written about the damned who could be redeemed who have no voice, not one, speaking for them. Who are referenced in the quatrains. No one eulogize the innocent who were babies once who arE urgently moving from place to place, almost certainly on their way out. Go ahead Dave, write a poem about the innocent in hell. So many and not one, not one eulogizes their deaths. Poetry is a kinD of vacant activity.

[Light Haven]

What poets don't write about is probably more importAnt thAn what they Write About. DAve you can quote me.

[Light Haven]

Jesus wrote something about coming to sAve the sinners. Who writes for the sinners? Most of us.