Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop

Look what the poets found at an old Summerian dig the other day. Get out the tools, there must be more. Ohhhhhhhh, Dino!

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Title: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 04, 2009, 06:28:53 PM
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In an effort to expand the intellectual horizons of the general population, we've decided to embark on a new project that should increase the level of poetic awareness in the pib community and in the world at large. In the weeks to come, yours truly (that's me!) and perhaps mr. north, will endeavor to examine the works of celebrated poets in an effort to see what makes their poetry tick or what makes it fizzle like bromo in cheap beer. Come! Join us as we traverse the world of poetry. i say thank you.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 04, 2009, 09:12:58 PM
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Yours truly, I think we should begin with, Gilgamesh, wee wee back in time. One should always begin from the beginning of the beginning. You begin, pell mell, my friend.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 05, 2009, 12:30:54 AM
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i'll get right on it, boss. in the evening, we will dissect this gilgamesh and see what we shall see!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 05, 2009, 03:43:13 AM
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below is a fragment of the epic of gilgamesh that is representative of the style of the piece. let's see what the nameless sumerian author has in his/her bag of tricks!

Segment A

1-4. I will sing the song of the man of battle, the man of battle. I will sing the song of Lord Gilgameš, the man of battle, I will sing the song of him with the well-proportioned limbs, the man of battle. I will sing the song of the mighty …… lord, the man of battle.
5-11. {I will sing the song of the lord with the very black beard, the man of battle. I will sing the song of …… athletic strength, the man of battle. …… the king, the man ……; my king ……, my lord …… garden ……. …… courtyard, …… ĝipar;} {(1 ms. has instead:) …… his mother who bore him spoke to the lord: "My king …… in the river, my lord …… your garden."
2 lines unclear
}
unknown no. of lines missing

let's mull this over for a bit and see what hits the fan!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 05, 2009, 04:54:00 AM
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had enough? not bad, if the poet was tonto. one gets the sneaking suspicion that this is more of a chant than a poem. i picture some high priest laying it on the congregation of uruk or lagash intoning and droning redundantly about this "man of battle." enough already! we get the fucking idea.

One thing that does strike me is the use of the extended ellipse. this confused me at first , but i have a theory that ties up that loose end like a stringed haggis. i think it is an error in translation. what the nameless sumerian probably meant was eclipse not ellipse. if you read it as eclipse, it starts to make sense. the mighty lord of the eclipse - can there be a more striking image of power? he eclipses the king - this man of eclipse - he becomes the king eclipse.

notice how the nameless sumerian uses the eclipse motif in a round of punning reminiscent of the bard (shakespeare) :

my lord 'e clips the garden - 'e clips the courtyard - 'e clips gipar[?] - 'e clips his own mother who bore him[!]

the ending makes absolutely no sense at all:

my king eclipsed in the river, but still 'e clips the garden.

perhaps this is a reference to the afterlife, as in: the king drowned in the river, but still clips his garden. personally, i think he went a little overboard with the punnage. rare is the poet who can extend a pun. epics are one thing - comedy is another kind of animal altogether.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 05, 2009, 07:03:08 AM
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That opening chant you allude to has always reminded me of a broken phonograph, with the scratched 45's, always skipped at that pinnacle point in the song, a gabble you never forgot. Maybe it was intended to be an everlasting affliction on poets, i.e., how bad the repetition level has reached today? Do I need to say that again, Dino? But this was that oral tradition, cavities galore from barley, corn, and, sand, where repetition made an otherwise difficult life jovial, created lisps, and annoying whistles after every third syllable. I think they had crowns back then? I'll ask Bardy. Rock and Rap beats of today are similar, a beat that often gets you evicted. Maybe the translators/scribes included them on the original tablets to earn an extra 25 cents per word. You knew they had a lot of kids to feed in those days, muscular wives, not like all the divorced crap shooting poets of today, everything laden free, with free verse for free.

Are you free tonight for expresso, my friend? There's much left to discuss. Do I need to repeat this? Thank you-damn, I keep saying that.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 06, 2009, 01:22:56 AM
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this is what i'm talking about! the beginnings of agrarian life reflects itself in the art. we have, basically speaking, a grain eating people with associated dental problems venturing into unplowed poetic grasslands - eating, planting, and chanting as they go. pastoral? yes! agrarian? you bet! good poetry? i don't think so, but at least they tried and we should respect them for that.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 06, 2009, 03:34:31 AM
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good point, Dino, concerning the UZI dots. I wouldn't call it an error in translation,more a bewildered translator gone wild,a night out with a muscular Sumerian wive, or, maybe he copied the diamond polka dotted shirt he was probably wearing. They adorned themselves in jewelry, opulence. It was a time when poets knew the real meaning of a lived life, knew what a deluge really brought a people, and it wasn't Bush's FEMA. I do hope the area opens again to diggers, but not to rob them like what happened with Greece and Egypt. There are plenty of museums in the world, stockpiled, so I'd rather see the loot given back to the poets. I own a ring once worn by one of the 23 kings, Bardy Utu.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 06, 2009, 03:48:02 AM
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i love that ring! bardy utu of ur was the best of the bunch. a poet in his own right, this diminutive despot would write his poetry on the dried foreskins of the neighboring elamites who he devastated in the battle of ganesh in 2430 bce. unfortunatedly, no text remains - foreskins don't last forever, as well you know.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 06, 2009, 04:00:17 AM
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It's not a bad ring, Dino, and, being produced from foreskins which included "The He-Goat", I had them checked out for repulsive scents by a reputable Maryland jeweler. Most feared object was a dried maggot from Prince Urinal Utu. None found. we can thank the Sun God, and fresh air. I believe we have surviving scrolls because of the UZI dots, the circulating air. I learned that once from a wise guy.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 06, 2009, 04:09:25 AM
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i hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense to me. the "he-goat" aegis was the sacred prophylactic of the temple of inanna until a greek stole it and gave it to athena. shall we leave the wadis and tells of mesopotamia for more fertile arenas? east - west, doesn't matter to me. even south if you want, but the offerings are lean in the tropics due to the climate and predators both mammalian and reptilian.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 06, 2009, 04:38:11 PM
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On dreams: Tablet Four,
At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
at thirty leagues they stopped for the night,
walking Fifty leagues in a whole day,
a walk of a month and a half.
On the third day they drew near to the Lebanon.
They dug a well facing Shamash (the setting sun),
Gilgamesh climbed up a mountain peak,
made a libation of flour, and said:
"Mountain, bring me a dream, a favorable message from
Shamash.

Have you ever noticed in many of these works of antiquity, that dreams play a pivotal role in the stories, something we take all too lightly these days? They didn't have photographs, television, movies, and I can only imagine this was their closest image to the past, the face of a loved on who passed in the night, a family member.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 06, 2009, 07:01:45 PM
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in critique methodology - at least as yours truly understands it, a poem exists as both an artistic expression and as a historical document - a concept frequently overlooked and under-appreciated. we will be back later to further masticate upon this mesopotamian mythos - this meat of old monarchs, as a wise baltimore poet once said.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 03:01:06 AM
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they must've written this poem by committee. gone are the elipses/eclipses as we now enter the realm of a more sophisticated poetry - less ritualistic - reflecting, perhaps, improved social organization and prosperity - or a better translator. again, we see the significance of grain - the domestication of a food supply that gave birth to these early civilizations and afforded them the leisure time to create art and perhaps even baklava. it is not a mystery why gilgamesh offered flour to the sun god. i'd like your thoughts on the matter, mr. north.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 07, 2009, 03:34:00 AM
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There is art in Gilgamesh, but limited. We just don't know how much of the original text was lost. When we read from tablet eleven, I [Utnapishtim] released a dove from the boat, it flew off, but circled around and returned, for it could find no perch... this Flood tale is the original, much older than the Old Testament story of Noah, so why haven't they changed the teachings to give due credit? First there was flour, then there was baklava, biscotti shortly thereafter. I hope one day, that they find a buried city, with traffic lights, flying cars, a huge monolith that reads: Here stood Gilgamesh, King over all the earth, and Bardy Utu, survivor of purges.

Without jumping too far into the future, Dino, I pass the reigns over to you. What new poem, my Liege? East, West, South, or, North?

In parting, I give thanks to, George Smith, 1840-1876, English Assyriologist, and to the He-Goat.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 03:44:46 AM
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i'd sort of like to hang around with the mesopotamians for a bit. they don't get enough respect. when one considers that more time elapsed between the sumerians and jesus than from jesus to our time, well to me, that is pretty mind-boggling and is virtuous of our combined and considerable powers of discernment -if i don't say so myself.

i have something in mind, but i have to find the text. it's a gooder!!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 04:20:35 AM
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Hymn to Inanna

Enheduanna (first "author" named in western history)

The Hymn of Enheduanna, Daughter of Sargon II of Akkad, Princess Imperial of Sumer and Akkad and Priestess of Inanna and the Moon in Ur: c. 2300 b.c., to Inanna, goddess of love, war and life.

O Queen of the Seven Gods, O radiant splendor
of light, fountain of life, darling of Heaven
and Earth, priest, daughter and servant of Heaven!

Jewelled and crowned with life, born to be Lord,
in your hand are the guardian spirits of the Seven Gods,
and you yourself guard and protect the guardian spirits,
you have taken them up and tied them to your hands,
have gathered them in and pressed them to your breast.

You can fill the land with poison like a snake,
plants vanish from the earth when you thunder like Anu,
at your command the floods come down from the mountain.

Supreme in power, Inanna of Heaven and Earth,
whose mouth rains sparkles of lightning over the land,
mistress of beasts, given the gods’ life-spirits
by An, by An given the unfailing Word
to speak at his fateful command: who can fathom your glory?

...O wild and rampant, eldest daughter of the Moon,
Queen greater than An, who can pay you sufficient homage?

Queen of Queens, who in accordance with the spirits
were greater than your mother the moment you were born,
wise and knowing queen of all the lands,
mother of men and animals, I sing your praise...

I have entered before you in my holy garments,
I the princess imperial, Enheduanna,
singing as I carried your ritual baskets,

High Priestess of the Moon. But now no longer
can I serve the goodly temple that I established,
for the day that dawns in Ur scorches my skin
and the sand of the Southwind overwhelms me at nightfall,

My honey sweet voice is hoarse and strident
and all that gave me pleasure has fallen to dust.

I, what am I among living creatures!

An, An, give to punishment the rebels
that hate Inanna, and split their cities’ walls!

Enlil, curse them, and let their children perish
with no mother there to soothe them!

...The queen of queens, the prop of all the nations,
accepted Enheduanna’s prayers. Her heart
was again as of old, the day became propitious,
Inanna showered her beauty and allure
and joy like silver moonlight over our land!

Ancient Nanu in wonder and awe, and Ningal
her mother, worshiped her at the templ’s doorstep.

Priestess, queen, noble commander of gods,
destroyer of barbarians, whom An made protector of spirits,
Queen, clothed in allure and attraction, Inanna: Praise

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 05:12:40 AM
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over 4000 years have passed and it still takes connections to go big time. a princess! daughter of fucking sargon no less. if shanker, swineherd of nineveh, had written this we wouldn't even be reading it. sounds like enya to me - if i may be so bold. oh, i suppose it is fashionable and politically correct to give women their due, but then they take on this attitude of being the grand poohbahs of procreation - like they did it all by their lonesome. give me a break - that kind of attitude would drive a real man to masturbation rather than submitting to their holier than thou crapolla. but i digress. let's give her the benefit of the doubt and treat her poem as if she wasn't a princess, but rather a poetess from dundalk or essex - far-fetched as that may be.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 07, 2009, 02:52:02 PM
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What other living creature is a splendor of light, and 6-10 thousand years ago they ruled this planet, i.e, fill the land with poison like a snake,take away the air brush and all commerce stops! Shit if I will. This was a society without lawyers, all of them at the Supreme head. They even required homage to their daughters,no Lolita bullshit here to get an athlete killed.

My honey sweet voice is hoarse and strident
and all that gave me pleasure has fallen to dust.

We know of only two creature in the world to cause this, an oversized He-Goat, or, a walrus! That damn barley can make anything grow on a man. Woman ruled during this Ice Age!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 03:02:16 PM
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but they get pissed off so easy, my friend. check this out:

An, An, give to punishment the rebels
that hate Inanna, and split their cities’ walls!

Enlil, curse them, and let their children perish
with no mother there to soothe them!

men had to take over the reins for their own self-protection. that much is obvious. notice that as the princess starts getting old she gets more surly:

High Priestess of the Moon. But now no longer
can I serve the goodly temple that I established,
for the day that dawns in Ur scorches my skin
and the sand of the Southwind overwhelms me at nightfall,

then she starts squawking about blasting city walls and children without mothers. how can you trust her, much less live with her?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 03:24:17 PM
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it's enlil, i believe, that is the root of the problem. once they switched from breast-feeding to using formulas like enlil everything went to the dogs!!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 07, 2009, 03:25:44 PM
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What man in his right mind would want to test this equation, knowing she was a destroyer of barbarians?I tend to believe that a catastrophic event occurred that laid waste to every inch of their civilization. Perhaps one night they entered in holy garments,and refused to take them off. Any barbarian would be upset! It's enough to split a city wall.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 03:28:10 PM
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good point!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 04:39:04 PM
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she has credentials: imperial princess, high priestess of inanna, daughter of sargon, etc.

i'd say that is of a higher order than a couple of chapbooks and an e-zine, but who am i to judge? a poem must stand on its own merits. we don't pull rank in the chop shop. credentials mean absolutely nothing as far as we're concerned! are you with me, matey?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 07, 2009, 04:42:54 PM
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Credentials are a mere tattoo on a Royalhiney, Matey! Even the Sumerians knew that. Care to meet me at the deli today?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 07, 2009, 04:47:03 PM
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lead on, macbard! after a substantial repast, perhaps you can select a poem to satisfy our literary appetites. no?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 09, 2009, 12:22:00 AM
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A Sumerian Love Poem For A King, (over 4000 years)

Bridegroom, dear to my heart, Goodly is your beauty, honeysweet
You have captivated me, let me stand trembling before you; Bridegroom, I would be taken to the bedchamber...
Bridegroom, you have taken your pleasure of me...
Tell my mother, she will give you delicacies; my father, he will give you gifts.

Poets have said there are no poems about sex, well here it is, the oldest one on record. Short memories, those American poets. This is a baby maker.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 09, 2009, 12:42:13 AM
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it has a middle eastern flavor to it - unlike american romance that renders the parents irrelevant, in this, they are respected, and marriage becomes blended with familial love which makes it even stronger. of course, the bridegroom is a king - so maybe the bride is setting up the king with cheapo presents in order to get the big payoff - the royal treatment. remember, i am greek and know how these things work.

and another thing. we lose sight of the fact that these poets, of which we are so enamoured, were humans - just like most of us; they didn't walk around in profile like a fucking hieroglyph! they made love - and cakes - those little honey barley cakes with sesame - maybe with a date or drupe in it if times were good. i don't see no honey barley cakes where i live - with or without drupes. women have traded the skills of the hearth for flannel shirts, cigars, and a big mac. not all women, mind you - i'm not saying that, but at least a significant proportion of the feminine persuasion have betrayed their cultural sexuality. i hate when that happens.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 10, 2009, 02:43:30 AM
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...and these poets weren't mutinous slobs who worked in penal colonies, they were the supreme models for the hieroglyphs, laden in gold, ancient capitalists. they could bake a barley cake that could grind the teeth of Mr. Ed. That's saying a lot. Imagine a flannel shirt in the middle of summer, nothing but poems of form to recite. The Sumerians have ruled every bedchamber since. what's love got to do with it? They need a good football team.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 10, 2009, 10:53:24 PM
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are we through yet with these savages? shall we continue onward or dally around some more in the land between the rivers? i say let's cruise! if you concur, i shall pick a card from the magic deck of poetry.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 11, 2009, 03:43:39 AM
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can you find a good one for the road, maybe a Persian or Egyptian poem? these were/are a great people.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 11, 2009, 03:46:14 AM
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i have something in mind, but i have to find it. must be around here somewhere. i'll go upstairs to the basement.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 11, 2009, 04:04:31 AM
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egyptian book of the dead, chapter 125 - the judgment of the dead - introduction (c. 1800 bce)) W. Budge translation

[The dead will say:]
Homage to you, Great God, the Lord of the double Ma'at (Truth)!
I have come to you, my Lord,
I have brought myself here to behold your beauties.
I know you, and I know your name,
And I know the names of the two and forty gods,
Who live with you in the Hall of the Two Truths,
Who imprison the sinners, and feed upon their blood,
On the day when the lives of men are judged in the presence of Osiris.
In truth, you are "The Twin Sisters with Two Eyes," and "The Daughters of the Two Truths."
In truth, I now come to you, and I have brought Maat to you,
And I have destroyed wickedness for you.
I have committed no evil upon men.
I have not oppressed the members of my family.
I have not wrought evil in the place of right and truth.
I have had no knowledge of useless men.
I have brought about no evil.
I did not rise in the morning and expect more than was due to me.
I have not brought my name forward to be praised.
I have not oppressed servants.
I have not scorned any god.
I have not defrauded the poor of their property.
I have not done what the gods abominate.
I have not cause harm to be done to a servant by his master.
I have not caused pain.
I have caused no man to hunger.
I have made no one weep.
I have not killed.
I have not given the order to kill.
I have not inflicted pain on anyone.
I have not stolen the drink left for the gods in the temples.
I have not stolen the cakes left for the gods in the temples.
I have not stolen the cakes left for the dead in the temples.
I have not fornicated.
I have not polluted myself.
I have not diminished the bushel when I've sold it.
I have not added to or stolen land.
I have not encroached on the land of others.
I have not added weights to the scales to cheat buyers.
I have not misread the scales to cheat buyers.
I have not stolen milk from the mouths of children.
I have not driven cattle from their pastures.
I have not captured the birds of the preserves of the gods.
I have not caught fish with bait made of like fish.
I have not held back the water when it should flow.
I have not diverted the running water in a canal.
I have not put out a fire when it should burn.
I have not violated the times when meat should be offered to the gods.
I have not driven off the cattle from the property of the gods.
I have not stopped a god in his procession through the temple,
I am pure.
I am pure.
I am pure.
I am pure.
My purity is the purity the great Bennu (heron) in Heracleopolis.
Behold, I am the nose of the God of Breath, who gives life to the people,
On the day of completing the Eye of Ra in Heliopolis,
On the last day of the second month of winter,
In the presence of the pharaoh of this land.
I have seen the the Eye of Horus when it was full in Heliopolis!
Therefore, let no evil befall me in this land
In this Hall of the Two Truths,
Because I know the names of all the gods within it,
And all the followers of the great God.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 11, 2009, 05:09:32 AM
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I knew those barley cakes would surface again, and, to no other greater society than the Egyptian. I just wish you'd stop using B.C., B.C.E. to date your collections. Just take today's date, and make that your focal point in time. The Egyptians had built Khufu's retirement home long before the XMAS tree. Poetry then seemed like legal briefs, a kind of Marxist rigidity, and as broke. One was probably whipped for violating just none line. How's that for a chapbook? But I believe an ancient work not translated correctly can be ruinous to a culture, and I have my suspicions about a man named, Budge. Nobody can budge this poem, and I feel sorry for the poor sap who the kids weep! you knew the repetition would be a declaration for war. Either the scribe , or the translator screwed up. Good ending, and thanks for posting, my good friend!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 11, 2009, 04:33:41 PM
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We need to find more Persian poems, Dino. Darius had a few up his sleeve. He was more than just a deli worker. I'll check my collection.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 11, 2009, 04:39:41 PM
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most were destroyed by the moslems.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 11, 2009, 04:51:50 PM
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no, they were smart enough to bury them. we haven't searched enough, the deli lords have taken over.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 11, 2009, 06:09:46 PM
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by all means, check up darius' sleeve - it won't be the first time a greek kicked his sorry ass. as i remember, we weren't satisfied kicking one darius to the curb, we had to do it again to another. personally, i'm waiting for a third so i can get in on it. but first, back to the egyptians. i shall return in the evening to delve into their zombie book of the dead.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 11, 2009, 10:10:07 PM
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oh, so you believe those tales about a band of rug rats defeating legions of experienced freedom fighters?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 11, 2009, 10:15:58 PM
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if it wasn't for the greeks, you'd be wearing a turban. not that there's anything wrong with a turban. you'd probably look good in one.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 11, 2009, 10:20:45 PM
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where's his glass coffin? most likely in Persia, where he raised his kids.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 11, 2009, 10:22:07 PM
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idol speculation. yes?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 12, 2009, 04:31:13 PM
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What did you do with all the Persian poems? Hide them under the deli counter?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 12, 2009, 05:16:54 PM
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not much has survived from antiquity, or, as you have mentioned, it may yet be discovered. be that as it may, i don't see any so the book of the dead will have to suffice. the excerpt reminds me of the ten commandments, but then again why shouldn't it? in order for a civilization to have social continuity and cohesion these matters must be addressed. it gives some interesting insights into what was important to the egyptian culture and the prevailing moral winds of the time. more later - as i'm only warming up.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 13, 2009, 05:52:08 PM
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i think the passage illustrates the overall similarity of middle eastern religions - which is perennially ironic for obvious reasons, and, perhaps more importantly, the poem kicks ass regally! of course, one could argue that this is not a poem, but rather, a religious text. i would argue that poetry has its roots in religion, and the farther one goes back they become one in the same in function and expression. here in the chop shop we don't get all holy roly about such distinctions.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 14, 2009, 04:49:46 PM
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since my co-writer seems to be off on "another" vacation and/or retirement - as it were - i will continue in my own humble, yet intelligent, fashion.

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Title: Re: Dino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 14, 2009, 05:23:45 PM
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I just sent you biscotti, infidel! You ruined my vacation. No Costa Rica for you, Mr. Che Wannabe.

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Title: Re: Dino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 14, 2009, 05:25:14 PM
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sorry about that. i hope they aren't dry like last time.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 14, 2009, 05:47:45 PM
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oh, these tiresome hanger-ons. always vying for a free ride on the talent train. i indulge them; it is a cross one must bear, i suppose.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 14, 2009, 05:51:49 PM
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More Zoroastrian poems on the way. Your "boy", Alex, didn't destroy everything. I once heard King George was related to him in a very distant way?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 16, 2009, 08:24:43 PM
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VISPERAD 1.

1.
"I announce, and (will) complete (my Yasna) to the lords of the spiritual creatures, and to the lords of the earthly creatures, to the lords of those which live under the waters, and to the lords of those which live upon land, to the lords of those which strike the wing, and to the lords of those which roam (wild) upon the plains, to the lords of those of (home-beasts) of the cloven hoof, holy lords of the ritual order."

---Translated by L. H. Mills (From Sacred Books of the East, American Edition, 1898.)

I read some of these in my mid-twenties, and thought they were lost for good. I'm heading out today to find and purchase a copy before the Net takes over. I like books. The Baltimore Book Fest is another place to buy cheap books, cheap coffee. My expresso machine makes fine cups at $1.45 can. The net is ruining my eyesight. I want my books. Where's the newspapers? We're screwed!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 17, 2009, 12:06:20 AM
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i trying to complete my yasna too. it's not easy, but i feel i'm making progress.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 17, 2009, 12:25:43 AM
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It's all tied into recitation, a lost art these days. their brand of polytheism was more appealing, logical, and less stressful, let's say, than on a single deity. They believed the world was a complex polyester, and they wore the clothing to prove it.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 17, 2009, 12:37:18 AM
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a ban-lon pantheon? i like the concept. tell me more about this synthetic religion for i am an ignorant man.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 17, 2009, 05:39:09 PM
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these texts are fascinating in a variety of ways. the avesta, of which this is a part, is similar to other indo-european religious cosmogonies - structurally and linguistically. the eurasian steppes cut a swath east and west and appear to be the origin of cultures that developed civilizations contemporary to one another - the myceneans, the indus valley culture - many more, and they seem to share a patriarchal triadic godhead. zoroastrianism, i believe, is part of that complex but with intriguing differences. especially so, since i have no idea what they are!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 19, 2009, 02:49:33 AM
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I'm glad we had this opportunity to breeze over this tiny tiny facet of Persian poetry. I'm still trying to locate that book. All I see now are food, and diet books at the big stores. Poetry is always located near the rest rooms. What's wrong with Barnes? It leads me to believe the book jackets are filthy, since nobody washes their hands anymore. The thought is painful, indeed. That's why the Net is taking over, like they claim Alex took over Darius. Bet he destroyed their poetry.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 19, 2009, 02:50:53 AM
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alexander respected persian culture - it was those damn turks!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 19, 2009, 04:19:14 AM
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Just checking, my friend, you know how much I believe the He-Goat caused this lapse. Cripes, PIB has more poetry to offer, a staggering thought. Double cripes, and thank you, again.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 19, 2009, 04:21:58 AM
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you're so welcome, mr. north. shall we tackle the inevitable - the delectable saffron of lesbos (i love typing that!)

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 19, 2009, 04:29:35 AM
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We're forging ahead too quickly. Have we considered early Indo/Asian poetry? Before the spicy Saffron?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 19, 2009, 04:53:59 AM
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ok ok, but i'm running out of infidels. i'll come up with something - if i have to write it myself!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 21, 2009, 03:29:15 AM
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i think i've got something. give me a day or two and i'll have something that was worth the wait. it's hard to beam in on some of these texts.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 21, 2009, 07:47:40 PM
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never fear, SMITH, is here! lovely early Indo works on the way, good buddy. thank you.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 21, 2009, 07:58:47 PM
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cool! those indos were pretty hip.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 24, 2009, 03:24:09 AM
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screw the indos - i'm going with savory saffron of lesbos. we can get back to the indo scene whenever we manage to excavate one.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 25, 2009, 03:42:18 PM
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On Melancholy

Things I've Learned While Roaming the Earth

“When you are content to be simply yourself
and don't compare or compete,
everybody will respect you.”
Tao Te Ching

“Fill your bowl to the brim
and it will spill.
Keep sharpening your knife
and it will blunt.
Chase after money and security
and your heart will never unclench.
Care about people's approval
and you will be their prisoner.

Do your work, then step back.
The only path to serenity.”
Tao Te Ching

My good buddy, we need to explore this route for now. Saffron can wait awhile for another lover. She's fine.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 25, 2009, 03:52:14 PM
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if you insist. i'll indulge you - this time, but don't make a habit of it.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 25, 2009, 10:08:57 PM
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you wanna get slapped?

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 25, 2009, 10:16:58 PM
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a cyber-slap? why don't you just smite me - you know you want to. but first, let's see what confucius or this other chinese yahoo has to say - probably respect your elders.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 25, 2009, 11:34:08 PM
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sound and wise advice - i dare say. and cleverly delivered - succinct, yet expansive like a good wine cheaply priced. i'd say this poem passes the chop shop's canon of poetic proportions.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on August 28, 2009, 10:02:47 PM
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Where's the wise man poem who never reads poetry? More Indo, please!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on August 28, 2009, 10:21:54 PM
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Song of the Wagons
by Du Fu (c. 750 AD)

The wagons rumble and roll,
The horses whinny and neigh,
The conscripts each have bows and arrows at their waists.
Their parents, wives and children run to see them off,
So much dust's stirred up, it hides the Xianyang bridge.
They pull clothes, stamp their feet and, weeping, bar the way,
The weeping voices rise straight up and strike the clouds.
A passer-by at the roadside asks a conscript why,
The conscript answers only that drafting happens often.
"At fifteen, many were sent north to guard the river,
Even at forty, they had to till fields in the west.
When we went away, the elders bound our heads,
Returning with heads white, we're sent back off to the frontier.
At the border posts, shed blood becomes a sea,
The martial emperor's dream of expansion has no end.
Have you not seen the two hundred districts east of the mountains,
Where thorns and brambles grow in countless villages and hamlets?
Although there are strong women to grasp the hoe and the plough,
They grow some crops, but there's no order in the fields.
What's more, we soldiers of Qin withstand the bitterest fighting,
We're always driven onwards just like dogs and chickens.
Although an elder can ask me this,
How can a soldier dare to complain?
Even in this winter time,
Soldiers from west of the pass keep moving.
The magistrate is eager for taxes,
But how can we afford to pay?
We know now having boys is bad,
While having girls is for the best;
Our girls can still be married to the neighbours,
Our sons are merely buried amid the grass.
Have you not seen on the border of Qinghai,
The ancient bleached bones no man's gathered in?
The new ghosts are angered by injustice, the old ghosts weep,
Moistening rain falls from dark heaven on the voices' screeching."

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on September 03, 2009, 12:47:17 AM
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you taking a snooze, mr. north? i await your reply with eager patience!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on September 04, 2009, 03:22:20 PM
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war and more war. those chinese like to duke it out and then some.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on September 05, 2009, 07:00:03 AM
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You posted an excellent one by a poet with a glaring sense of history, and a foot in the doorway of warfare, with evident battle scars. Let me savor this.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on September 12, 2009, 04:22:58 AM
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it is a beauty, mike. it reminds me of a japanese film, ugetsu, by k. mizoguchi. so smooth, it as if we are privy to a conversation - but within the story is a wide expanse of human drama, emotion, and pathos.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on September 18, 2009, 03:18:49 AM
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Have a few on the way, Dino.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: WIREMAN on September 18, 2009, 04:20:54 AM
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...the not so famous man/famous potter and the banshee....what a story...

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on September 18, 2009, 04:47:28 AM
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ugetsu is magnificent. i don't think there is a better film - only as good. fellini did la strada the same year i believe.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on October 05, 2009, 04:47:58 AM
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let's keep film out of this discussion, it feeds off of poetry already.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on October 05, 2009, 05:59:05 AM
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if it comes up it comes up. poetry feeds off cinema as well. i don't see the problem, mike.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on October 05, 2009, 06:32:44 AM
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cinema is an altogether different art, and there are good websites out there devoted to such.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on October 05, 2009, 02:27:55 PM
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thanks for the info. have you seen l'avventura? great film.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: dave eberhardt on October 09, 2009, 04:58:51 PM
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poets that i would like to know more abt u could take up?
Heinrich von Kleist (he mostly wrote plays) (I don't think his poetry has even been translated) (possibly the ONLY great right wing writer) (psyko)
Manilius- Roman- long poem on astronomy
Clement Marot- early French-remarkable poet
the French poet imprisoned and guillotined during the revolution-wrote great poem from prison- why do I always blank on his name?
e e cummings
Pound the later cantos
the left Spanish poets of the 20th century- not just Lorca- Neruda- the others that are in Che's book of favorite poets

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: dave eberhardt on October 09, 2009, 05:05:18 PM
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it was Andre Chenier

Rimbaud would b good

and Holderlin- Pleez do Holderlin!!!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on October 09, 2009, 11:55:48 PM
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we are with the ancients now - i'll have to consult with my colleague for changes in agenda.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on October 10, 2009, 12:27:23 AM
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get with the program, mr. bog. take care of my light work, Mr. Poet. Saffron comes before all the radicals he listed. good day. cherrio!- e.e. bardy

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on October 10, 2009, 12:29:24 AM
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no changes to the syllabus! how can you have rimbaud without first having saffron? we are laying a foundation of culture here. i say good day.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on October 11, 2009, 07:31:05 PM
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so much left to explore, Don Dino, we haven't even gotten to Tumeric poeder or, Cochin poeder, or, Cardemom, let alone Saffron. Cherrio. haste makes for waste- you can quote me, good friend.

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on October 11, 2009, 07:44:18 PM
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cardemom is my favorite - next to saffron!

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: BardmasterUB05 on October 12, 2009, 04:32:11 PM
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shall we find more Eastern delights? maybe an ancient about poem about this spice? biscotti to the first one. cherrio

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: dave eberhardt on October 13, 2009, 04:27:39 PM
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most overrated spice
occasionally i have been able to actually TASTE saffron- usually it is just a yellow coloring- i've come to think of it as a tremendous rip off- some one told me- o- you have to have the genuine article- i actually bought some pistils from the flower-ground em myself- still nothing
once and a great while- a kind of thick- heavy yellowish taste that has no distinction-more of a texture than a taste
but bardinski and dinowski- please explicate what it tastes like to you?
it sounds great, i admit
froginbog

i like the hot stuff myself- scotch bonnet peppers laddees

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Title: Re: Bardino's Poetry Chop Shop
Post by: constantine on October 13, 2009, 06:22:38 PM
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we are discussing saffron of lesbos - not some salt substitute. sheesh!

here's a couple phoenician poems that pre-date the iliad.

From The Rapiuma, translated by Theodore J. Lewis

Behold your son, behold...
Your grandson, your shrine;
Behold ... your hand.
The small one will kiss your lips.
There, shoulder to shoulder.
Brothers, attendants of El...
There mortals .. the name of El,
... heroes bless the name of El.
There the shades of Baal ...
Warriors of Baal
Warriors of Anat.
There armed forces encircle
The eternal royal princes
As when Anat hastens to the hunt
Sets to flight the birds of the heavens.
They slaughtered oxen; sheep as well;
They felled bulls, fatlings too,
Also rams and year old calves,
They butchered lambs ad even kids.
Olive oil -- like silver to travelers,
... -- like gold to travelers.
... a table set with fruit,
Laid with fruit fit for kings,
Day long they pour the wine,
... must-wine, fit for rulers.
Wine, sweet and abundant,
Select wine...
The choice wine of Lebanon,
Must nurtured by El.
One day passes, then a second,
T