Thanks, guys.

Thanks, hons!

Ahem.  Since this is the shameless self-promotion thread, I should also add that the cover was photographed and designed by moi!

Constantine, you're supposed to make a habit of it.  Chris is right.  

I hope that people aren't just posting poems and tossing them into the ether afterward.  

But I'm still confused.  If it's not a verb, then shouldn't it be "flogging as THEY MOTIVATE"?  That's a really awkward line grammatically.

I never saw the first version, but I sure do like the poem.  I love the shards and glints and hard-baked goodness.  

I think the commas after flogging and anxious disturb the flow.  I also have a bit of trouble with the construction:

"and I could not forget even if I wanted to,
the submerged subterranean vaults,
bubbles from the tar pit"

I am not sure if bubbles is used as a verb or a noun.  As a verb, it doesn't work, but I just can't figure out how it's a noun.  Because the bubbles are "flogging, as it motivates," so "it" can't refer to "bubbles."

It's a visceral piece, but I just can't work that part.

So you were at the reading?  Who are you?  Did we meet?  I don't remember a Johnny, so your name is something else?

Thanks to everyone for the private messages of support.  Since you're all reading the controversy over here, I suppose it's the place to say thanks.

I usually don't give up and let bullies have their way on the playground.  But this requires so much work.  

Like Alan, I'm serious about poetry.  I write because I have to, because it's in me.  And maybe I'm an elitist when it comes to art, but I don't think so.  Outsider art is just as artistic and skilled as any other, and many outsider artists don't have the constraint of rules.  Still, outsider artists study art and technique.  They don't just wing it.

I am a writer.  I agonize over every word.  That is what I do not because of a poetry-centered education but because it is my passion and my process.

If poetry isn't all about the single word, it is about NOTHING.

It's not wrong of me to seek support and advice from those who are also interested in the craft, and it's not wrong of me to want to give it. It's natural.  As a college English teacher—adjunct or not, I am excellent at it and take pride in what I do, despite my lack of a Ph.D.—for seventeen years, I gave equal attention to everyone, writer or not, and equal encouragement to those who were interested in pursuing the craft and those who just needed a passing grade.  I have always been serious about taking time with words.

That said, I know that my friend Alan has not been so successful with holding his tongue, as his dander is up, his feathers are ruffled.  Some people so intentionally rub us this way that it's hard not to react.  I have a story to tell.

I have a friend who pummeled her boyfriend.  She's a nonviolent person.  She's sweet.  It takes a lot to get her fired up.  The boyfriend had a previous relationship in which his girlfriend clobbered him with a vase.  She told me she could see, now, why the girlfriend clunked him.  She used to think the ex-girlfriend was crazy.  Now she knows that the boyfriend drove them both to it.

Some people are like this.  Some people make you want to crack a flowerpot over their heads.

I am resisting the urge.

Julie, you made the right decision.  I guess the point I wanted to make is that yes, it sometimes does matter who started it.

[quote1189512469=countrygrl]
Oh, and yes, I, too, would like to know who's just interested in being read and who wants serious observations.  Perhaps separate threads would most easily address those needs.
[/quote1189512469]

Thanks.  That's what two of us were saying.  

Sometimes, if we give a suggestion or a comment to people, they tell us that they are writing something that needs to be heard or that it came out that way, and they just wanted to share it.  So we thought it would be a good idea for people who were looking to shape a poem into something that might be published somewhere to have a place to post it, so that we avoid hurting the feelings of the people who wrote to be heard.  Some people are sensitive to the mention that a comma is out of place.  This separation gives them a little safety.


Constantine, I disagree with you.  I never called anyone names, and I never became rude.  I'm sorry if you feel I did.  Despite the vicious unwarranted attacks, I did not take the bait.

I'll tell you what I will do, though.  I'll kick the dirty ball back to the guy who soiled it.  I'm not playing on this field anymore.  

I have enjoyed many of the things I have read on PIB over the last few years, and I wish you all the best of luck in your creative writing endeavors.

Oh, sorry!  I didn't post the revision.  

That stanza is now:

my grandmother
is in pink lipstick
“peony frost”
swirled with spearmint
green stack of gum packs
in the silverware drawer.
she is in acrylic yarn that pills
and anything that cooks
in any oven, on any stove.

I am leaving in the buildings because it goes with the belief that you leave part of your soul wherever you go.  The poem is really about what a soul is.

Thanks so much!

I guess that's a good idea, though I don't think a critique that says this, this, and this are great, but I don't like this is a particularly tough critique.

But thanks for that.  It's probably a good idea.

The picture has to be seen?  The picture of the blade?  I'm not sure I understand, but the opinion is just that.  No one has to do anything with it.  Good luck!

This is beautiful.  I like the imagery, but I am not sure about the poison whispering hope.  Would it?  The first, third, and fourth stanzas are vivid and work well for me, even the clunky word "vulnerabilities."  You make that work here.  Makes your poem vulnerable.

[quote1189445213=BardmasterUB05]I have to get back to work, and Ill come back to this...
[/quote1189445213]

Please don't on my account.

At any rate, I request that you not comment on my work, and I will not comment on yours.  I am a civil person, and I don't deserve the ire you've heaped on me.  

[quote1189444793=BardmasterUB05]
Oh, come off it with this shit, Leslie, you're beginning to sound like the old managers in my company who always gave out negative reviews, for the sake of it, and nearly bankrupted us, because all the talented, and higher paid employees quit from low moral issues, and the needless abuse from reviews. (Constructive criticism is what we need, inspiring, something "all" my teachers/better bosses  gave.) We're straightening out the shit from their many low reviews as we speak. Where is there perfection? Writing a valid critique is important, and I think my instructors have always offered that important tool, but to attack a work/person (because I think I'm better, and you "suck"), is a pile of crap, and I don't think anyone on this website has reached Nobel Laureate level. I knew you were going to bring up this crap. On one critique you offered here on, PIB, you began the process, made a huge entrance, and then stopped short of what I thought were larger intentions, or going to be. Huh? Alan's observations (if you call it that), were a bit harsh, and demeaning to those who post here. I'm sticking to what I originally wrote, and felt at the time. Why don't you just come out, and say what you think is crap? Miss self-appointed almighty of the stanza! If we didn't have so many bazooka launchers in the teaching profession, maybe this art wouldn't be so bankrupt.  I'm sticking to what I wrote. I have to get back to work, and Ill come back to this...
[/quote1189444793]

Are you responding to my post?  I don't even understand what you've written here.  You're using foul language and attributing to me something I didn't say.  

Some people here want constructive criticism.  That's what I'm arguing for.  Others just want their poems read.  That's fine, too.  I'd like to know which people just want to air their work and which are serious about making their poems the best they can be, which invites myriad points of view, not just one, not just mine.

I never suggested anyone call anyone else's poetry crap.  But I don't think you care what I said.  I wonder if you are capable of discourse with anyone who doesn't agree with you.  

Thanks, Mike.  That is a good point.